[3dem] 3dem Digest, Vol 188, Issue 32
Cazey, Cornelia
cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de
Wed Apr 26 01:44:48 PDT 2023
Thanks Dario,
That is exactly what we do! Hence my slight confusion with the 50l cylinder.
So this must mean that Air-Liquide doesn't fill their cylinders in liquid phase. I understood the Linde Representative that this is precisely the problem, the need to fill in liquid phase, which taxes their equipment now to a point beyond its limits. I also understand from the many gratefully received replies from everyone on the list and directly, that Linde only stopped this after this January, as January 2023 orders have been fulfilled. But since already not all groups who use the mix order from Linde, the demand on Ethane/Propane from them must be pretty small and their decision is understandable from an economical point of view. We have some serious thinking to do...
Thanks again for all the help!
Best wishes,
Cornelia
----- Original Message -----
From: 3dem-request at ncmir.ucsd.edu
To: "3dem" <3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April, 2023 21:00:01
Subject: 3dem Digest, Vol 188, Issue 32
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from Linde-Gas
(Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
(Dario Saczko-Brack)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 16:11:09 +0200
From: Dario Saczko-Brack <dariobrack at googlemail.com>
To: 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
Subject: Re: [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from
Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
Message-ID: <01c474a6-245d-c68d-cab0-0dd79d313673 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Hi Oliver/Cornelia,
if you fill ethan and/or propan in their liquid phase at 200bar, a 10L
cylinder is sufficient.
Best
Dario
On 25.04.23 16:05, Oliver Hofnagel wrote:
>
> Hi Cornelia,
>
> the ethane/propane gas mixture cylinders are filled with only 7 bar
> (pure ethane cylinders with 33 bar). Therefore the recommendation to
> order 50 l cylinders !
> Greetings,
>
> Oliver
>
>
> Dr. Oliver Hofnagel
> Max-Planck-Institute of Molecular Physiology
> Electron Microscopy
> Otto-Hahn-Str. 11
> 44227 Dortmund
> Germany
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Von:* Cornelia Cazey <cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de>
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 25. April 2023 13:50:10
> *An:* Oliver Hofnagel
> *Cc:* Michael Elbaum; r.i.koning at lumc.nl; 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> *Betreff:* Re: [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from
> Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
> Hi Oliver,
>
> Thanks a lot for the info. But why do they only supply in 50l
> cylinders? Or rather why order a 50l cylinder? Economic reasons?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cornelia
> On 25 Apr 2023, at 13:40, Oliver Hofnagel
> <oliver.hofnagel at mpi-dortmund.mpg.de> wrote:
>
> Dear Cornelia,
>
>
> here our supplier for? 37% ethane / 63% propane 50l cylinder
> cryogen mix in Germany:
>
> /
> /
>
> /AIR LIQUIDE Deutschland GmbH
> Kunden-Service-Center Spezialgase
> Bataverstra?e 47
> 47809 Krefeld
> Telefon: (02151) 954-254
> //Email : spezialgase.ald at airliquide.com/
>
>
>
> Its important to order a 50l cylinder, not a 10l cylinder !
>
> Greetings,
>
> Oliver
>
>
> Dr. Oliver Hofnagel
> Max-Planck-Institute of Molecular Physiology
> Electron Microscopy
> Otto-Hahn-Str. 11
> 44227 Dortmund
> Germany
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Von:* 3dem <3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu> im Auftrag von Michael
> Elbaum <michael.elbaum at weizmann.ac.il>
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 20. April 2023 16:29:00
> *An:* r.i.koning at lumc.nl; cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de;
> 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> *Betreff:* Re: [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from
> Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
>
> Hi.? would it be possible to use two pure tanks and a mixing
> regulator? I think such regulators are used for welding.
>
> Michael
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* 3dem <3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu> on behalf of
> r.i.koning at lumc.nl <r.i.koning at lumc.nl>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 5:15:10 PM
> *To:* cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de; 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from
> Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
>
> Dear Cornelia,
>
> Our most recent order of ethane/propane also did not come through
> from Line because of the same reason. We will have to do with
> ethane only for now but I prefer the mixture for obvious reasons,
> though we do manage with ethane only. We did not look for nor
> found another vendor.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Roman
>
> *Dr. R.I.Koning*
>
> Leiden University Medical Center, Cell and Chemical Biology,
> Electron Microscopy
>
> Postal Zone S1-P, P.O.Box 9600, 2300 RC, Leiden, The Netherlands
>
> *visiting address.*Einthovenweg 20, Building 2, zone S1-P, room
> R-90-21
>
> *tel.*(31) 71 526 9296 *fax.* (+31) 71 526 8270
> *mail.***r.i.koning at lumc.nl <mailto:r.i.koning at lumc.nl>*web.
> *Electron Microscopy Facility
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ccb.lumc.nl/electron-microscopy-198__;!!Mih3wA!GxgfkasxXThNdN_k1a9iqn0d9uls-PLaHnrrJAIhFXNITn6ehlzCx_U6V-rQFPvgm8pSGK1CJ1Vd55FxuUK3uvc$>
>
> *From:*3dem <3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of *Cazey,
> Cornelia
> *Sent:* donderdag 20 april 2023 15:52
> *To:* 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> *Subject:* [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from
> Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
>
> Dear list participants,
>
> Our lab is in Germany, and this is a very particular question
> relating to a German supplier, so apologies for addressing the
> entire list, but it seemed the easiest way to find groups who may
> be able to help.
>
> We recently learned that Linde-Gas, our supplier for the cryogen
> mix we use in our facility (37% ethane, rest propane) is no longer
> able to supply this mixture due to the overall difficulties in the
> production, age and poor state of their necessary equipment.
>
> I spoke with the supplier yesterday and while they would like to
> continue to offer the mix, they feel there is not enough market to
> make it feasible. I am now looking for info from groups who are
> using a cryogen mix rather than pure ethane for plunging (I am not
> sure, but relatively convinced that the process would be the same
> for any kind of mixture, so I guess the exact percentages won't
> matter too much) and have previously sourced this from Linde-Gas,
> and might be or have already been affected by this decision. If
> you have been affected, did you find a solution, a different
> supplier or any other alternative you are willing to share? Or if
> you didn't yet know, how much would this news affect your ability
> to work, and would you be interested to try and convince Linde-Gas
> to keep going? I understand the production line has already been
> shut down, but could be revived with enough interest, however, it
> may also come with a price increase (what doesn't).
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated, whether info on
> alternatives or willingness to push for the supply. I am happy to
> collect replies to send to the Linde-Gas representative in bulk
> or, of course, for those who prefer to contact him directly, do so
> themselves and increase the pressure to keep going/restart production.
>
> Thanks a lot for your help!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Cornelia Cazey
>
> Cornelia Cazey (She/Her)
>
> Cryo-EM Facility
>
> Centre for Structural Systems Biology (CSSB)
> c/o DESY, Building 15
> Notkestr. 85
> 22607 Hamburg
> Germany
>
>
> phone: +49-(0)40-8998-87706
> email:_cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de_
>
> /"If you don't know it's impossible, it's easier to do"/?-Neil Gaiman
>
> Sometimes I may send emails outside of core working hours. I do
> not expect you to read, or respond outside of your own working hours!
>
>
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