[3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging

Tue Apr 25 05:11:07 PDT 2023

Dear Cornelia,

There is Linde and Airliquide in Germany. I am having the same issue, so 
I cannot give you a solution at the moment...

You could however use Ethane and Propane separately (the way it was used 
when this method was first discovered). Fill the cup halfway with 
ethane, let it freeze completely and fill up with propane, which will 
melt the ethane. You'll end up with the freezing solution that will stay 
liquid.

A ready mixture of e:p is much more handy, obviously. But in case you 
have ethane available and the mix is not anymore, this might be a way to 
continue.

Best

Dario

On 25.04.23 13:40, Oliver Hofnagel wrote:
>
> Dear Cornelia,
>
>
> here our supplier for  37% ethane / 63% propane 50l cylinder cryogen 
> mix in Germany:
>
> /
> /
>
> /AIR LIQUIDE Deutschland GmbH
> Kunden-Service-Center Spezialgase
> Bataverstraße 47
> 47809 Krefeld
> Telefon: (02151) 954-254
> //Email : spezialgase.ald at airliquide.com/
>
>
>
> Its important to order a 50l cylinder, not a 10l cylinder !
>
> Greetings,
>
> Oliver
>
>
> Dr. Oliver Hofnagel
> Max-Planck-Institute of Molecular Physiology
> Electron Microscopy
> Otto-Hahn-Str. 11
> 44227 Dortmund
> Germany
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Von:* 3dem <3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu> im Auftrag von Michael 
> Elbaum <michael.elbaum at weizmann.ac.il>
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 20. April 2023 16:29:00
> *An:* r.i.koning at lumc.nl; cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de; 
> 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> *Betreff:* Re: [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from 
> Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
>
> Hi.  would it be possible to use two pure tanks and a mixing 
> regulator? I think such regulators are used for welding.
>
> Michael
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* 3dem <3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu> on behalf of 
> r.i.koning at lumc.nl <r.i.koning at lumc.nl>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 5:15:10 PM
> *To:* cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de; 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from 
> Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
>
> Dear Cornelia,
>
> Our most recent order of ethane/propane also did not come through from 
> Line because of the same reason. We will have to do with ethane only 
> for now but I prefer the mixture for obvious reasons, though we do 
> manage with ethane only. We did not look for nor found another vendor.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Roman
>
> *Dr. R.I.Koning*
>
> Leiden University Medical Center, Cell and Chemical Biology, Electron 
> Microscopy
>
> Postal Zone S1-P, P.O.Box 9600, 2300 RC, Leiden, The Netherlands
>
> *visiting address.*Einthovenweg 20, Building 2, zone S1-P, room R-90-21
>
> *tel.*(31) 71 526 9296 *fax.* (+31) 71 526 8270 
> *mail.***r.i.koning at lumc.nl <mailto:r.i.koning at lumc.nl>*web. *Electron 
> Microscopy Facility 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ccb.lumc.nl/electron-microscopy-198__;!!Mih3wA!GxgfkasxXThNdN_k1a9iqn0d9uls-PLaHnrrJAIhFXNITn6ehlzCx_U6V-rQFPvgm8pSGK1CJ1Vd55FxuUK3uvc$>
>
> *From:*3dem <3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of *Cazey, Cornelia
> *Sent:* donderdag 20 april 2023 15:52
> *To:* 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> *Subject:* [3dem] Calling all groups who use cryogen mix from 
> Linde-Gas (Germany, maybe Austria, Switzerland?) for plunging
>
> Dear list participants,
>
> Our lab is in Germany, and this is a very particular question relating 
> to a German supplier, so apologies for addressing the entire list, but 
> it seemed the easiest way to find groups who may be able to help.
>
> We recently learned that Linde-Gas, our supplier for the cryogen mix 
> we use in our facility (37% ethane, rest propane) is no longer able to 
> supply this mixture due to the overall difficulties in the production, 
> age and poor state of their necessary equipment.
>
> I spoke with the supplier yesterday and while they would like to 
> continue to offer the mix, they feel there is not enough market to 
> make it feasible. I am now looking for info from groups who are using 
> a cryogen mix rather than pure ethane for plunging (I am not sure, but 
> relatively convinced that the process would be the same for any kind 
> of mixture, so I guess the exact percentages won't matter too much) 
> and have previously sourced this from Linde-Gas, and might be or have 
> already been affected by this decision. If you have been affected, did 
> you find a solution, a different supplier or any other alternative you 
> are willing to share? Or if you didn't yet know, how much would this 
> news affect your ability to work, and would you be interested to try 
> and convince Linde-Gas to keep going? I understand the production line 
> has already been shut down, but could be revived with enough interest, 
> however, it may also come with a price increase (what doesn't).
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated, whether info on alternatives or 
> willingness to push for the supply. I am happy to collect replies to 
> send to the Linde-Gas representative in bulk or, of course, for those 
> who prefer to contact him directly, do so themselves and increase the 
> pressure to keep going/restart production.
>
> Thanks a lot for your help!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Cornelia Cazey
>
> Cornelia Cazey (She/Her)
>
> Cryo-EM Facility
>
> Centre for Structural Systems Biology (CSSB)
> c/o DESY, Building 15
> Notkestr. 85
> 22607 Hamburg
> Germany
>
>
> phone: +49-(0)40-8998-87706
> email:_cornelia.cazey at cssb-hamburg.de_
>
> /"If you don't know it's impossible, it's easier to do"/ -Neil Gaiman
>
> Sometimes I may send emails outside of core working hours. I do not 
> expect you to read, or respond outside of your own working hours!
>
>
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