[3dem] [External] Re: plasma cleaner question

[Ilya R.]

Dear David,

Like the others have already said, there is no problem with the plasma
cleaners' pump exhaust venting directly into the lab. In the old days, the
problem was more the oil fumes from the oil pumps - those required handling
of the exhaust. I presume that nowadays you have an oil-free pump. What
vents into the atmosphere is the exhaust of the pump, not from the plasma
cleaner itself, and there are no high-energy ions in the pump exhaust any
more: a low enough pressure is required to create the plasma. You can
actually demonstrate this to your colleague by turning on the coils and
watching the glow: it will appear only when the pressure is low enough.

This is different from the UVOzone cleaners, which release significant
amounts of ozone and require proper exhaust handling.

Good luck. :)

Ilya.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 4:51 AM Sylvain Trepout <sylvain.trepout at monash.edu>
wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> This might be your solution story.
>
> During plasma cleaning, the pump is on. Meaning that the plasma is being
> sucked-up by the pump.
> Since the pump is equipped with a small filter, there is no plasma
> released by the glow-discharger.
> And you might also want to tell your colleague that venting goes the other
> way around, that is air from the room that goes inside the glow-discharger,
> not the opposite.
>
> Cheers,
> Sylvain
>
> PhD
> Research Fellow - Microscopy Australia
>
> *Monash University*
> Ramaciotti Centre for Cryo-EM
> G92, 15 Innovation Walk, Clayton Campus
> Victoria, 3800 Australia
>
> E: sylvain.trepout at monash.edu
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 14:37, Morgan, David Gene <dagmorga at indiana.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Ruben,
>>
>> That's my thought also, but one of the staff members seems to think that
>> it will vent "plasma" into the lab. I've tried to convince her that's not a
>> thing and that what does get vented isn't a problem, but to no avail.  So I
>> was hoping to show her that I'm not the only person who believes this...
>>
>> Wish me luck :-)
>>
>>
>> --
>>     politics is more difficult than physics.
>>                                              A. Einstein
>>
>>             David Gene Morgan
>>         Electron Microscopy Center
>>              047E Simon Hall
>>              IU Bloomington
>>           812 856 1457 (office)
>>           812 856 3221 (3200)
>>       https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://iubemcenter.indiana.edu__;!!Mih3wA!Ev2hRTTSG3ar9Mwu9BMqpMEfsSJFaRzVdrq2-G2EmEIoswSH9gPFolaNHSfMByoYa7WLDUn2KrOgkjWdH2drKA$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://iubemcenter.indiana.edu__;!!Mih3wA!GJCQh8LhQbYpNmdmmM7TjqCfArVg7If8rVstOGrppxscYuk37Sy7QDmZinEp562bfjZSMFMslsgarQ9uw7i8Wmo$>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Ruben Diaz Avalos <rdiaz at lji.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2024 10:22 PM
>> *To:* Morgan, David Gene <dagmorga at indiana.edu>
>> *Cc:* 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu <3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [External] Re: [3dem] plasma cleaner question
>>
>>
>> This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when
>> clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> We have also a Fischione plasma cleaner, to which we have connected a
>> Nitrogen and an Argon tank. The instrument vents to the lab and EH & S has
>> no problem with that. I don't think the process of plasma cleaning would
>> produce any noxious gases anyway.
>>
>> Ruben.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 12:48 PM Morgan, David Gene <dagmorga at indiana.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is for any of you who have a plasma cleaner.  What have you done
>> about venting the "exhaust gases" from the device?
>>
>> We are moving our Fischione plasma cleaner into a new area sample prep
>> area.  In the old location, we were able to connect the exit port of the
>> cleaner directly into the exhaust snorkel where a fume hood was once
>> connected.  In our new location, that will either be impossible or will
>> require a connection that spans many meters and passes through multiple
>> walls.
>>
>> I am wondering how necessary people think it is to vent directly into
>> some sort of building exhaust system.  Any thoughts?
>>
>> As always, thanks in advance for your comments and ideas.
>>
>> --
>>     politics is more difficult than physics.
>>                                              A. Einstein
>>
>>             David Gene Morgan
>>         Electron Microscopy Center
>>              047E Simon Hall
>>              IU Bloomington
>>           812 856 1457 (office)
>>           812 856 3221 (3200)
>>       https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://iubemcenter.indiana.edu__;!!Mih3wA!Ev2hRTTSG3ar9Mwu9BMqpMEfsSJFaRzVdrq2-G2EmEIoswSH9gPFolaNHSfMByoYa7WLDUn2KrOgkjWdH2drKA$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://iubemcenter.indiana.edu__;!!Mih3wA!H1ezyicc3l9zqC84h5PenRpoYK2sNH9uBOXeEyt4bwThP5eeNk7_JR3tAVW05iBVg0yKt09vOIXBlbiajjOxOUA$>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> **********************************************
>> Ruben Diaz Avalos,
>> La Jolla Institute for Immunology,
>> 9420 Athena Circle Dr.,
>> La Jolla, CA 92037
>> (858)752-6960
>> **********************************************
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