<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Both emClarity and cisTEM (recent alpha version) implement an algorithm that also tiles an image of a tilted specimen, but stretches the off-axis power-spectra in such a way that the Thon rings add more-or-less coherently.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">In emClarity, this is based of the tilt-series alignment.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">In cisTEM, the tilt-axis-angle and tilt-angle are fit as a part of the tilted CTF refinement.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The basic algorithm is described in my thesis (online at Pitt med) and I believe in the emClarity Nat Meth. paper.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Here's a <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_cryo2go_status_1282036490378280961-3Fs-3D20-26t-3Dkg1qVYhpGcqQa5z3qyAFAg&d=DwMFaQ&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=1ewdSi1Sw81zQt6Nq3CrsySs-Y287rlAiec-bqJlfPLyQA_vi_KKJ1zxdz-nyZxB&s=uOWrwyCyn0SHh3IdOd5dnzsno3epRK-16lKliqKBnsc&e=">movie </a>of what that looks like in emClarity.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">You can find some developmental versions of <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bhimes.github.io_cisTEM-5Fdocs_docs_sim_tutorials_tutorials.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=1ewdSi1Sw81zQt6Nq3CrsySs-Y287rlAiec-bqJlfPLyQA_vi_KKJ1zxdz-nyZxB&s=1I6nf3WKHJ4CgOEGj0gCGld5hh3dYr6xMs5vpLf_8C4&e=">cisTEM and docs here</a>.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">HTH</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ben</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><span>------------------------<br> </span><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">Benjamin A. Himes, PhD<br>Computer Vision Specialist</span></span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">Grigorieff Lab<br> HHMI, RNA Therapeutics Institute, University of Massachusetts Medical School</span></span></span></p><div><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">AS.5 2041</span></span></span><br></div><div><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">774-455-3690</span></span></span><br></div><div><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt"></span></span></span><br></div><div><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">Visual Proteomics @ <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_timothygrant80_cisTEM&d=DwMFaQ&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=1ewdSi1Sw81zQt6Nq3CrsySs-Y287rlAiec-bqJlfPLyQA_vi_KKJ1zxdz-nyZxB&s=41KwSGC4luYRkhhe2QfAgeOzeUz_blD009ZucnyZwNM&e=" target="_blank">cisTEM</a></span></span></span><br></div><div><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">cryo-STA development @ </span></span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_bHimes_emClarity&d=DwMFaQ&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=1ewdSi1Sw81zQt6Nq3CrsySs-Y287rlAiec-bqJlfPLyQA_vi_KKJ1zxdz-nyZxB&s=Mr28B9czdsoEDTAJoaNMQmJ9M8dSaufB3EUr8LRt_D4&e=" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">emClarity</span></span></a></span></span></span><br></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt">------------------------</span></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><div><br><br></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 6:07 PM <<a href="mailto:3dem-request@ncmir.ucsd.edu">3dem-request@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send 3dem mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
   1. tilted transfer functions? (Morgan, David Gene)<br>
   2. Re: tilted transfer functions? (Daniel Asarnow)<br>
   3. Re: [External] Re:  tilted transfer functions?<br>
      (Morgan, David Gene)<br>
   4. Re: [External] Re: tilted transfer functions?<br>
      (Michael Radermacher)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 22:41:31 +0000<br>
From: "Morgan, David Gene" <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [3dem] tilted transfer functions?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
        <<a href="mailto:MWHPR08MB2640E93081D1A4936344921FD0019@MWHPR08MB2640.namprd08.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">MWHPR08MB2640E93081D1A4936344921FD0019@MWHPR08MB2640.namprd08.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
What's the best way to evaluate the CTF of an image that has a significant amount of tilt?<br>
<br>
--<br>
    politics is more difficult than physics.<br>
                                             A. Einstein<br>
<br>
            David Gene Morgan<br>
        Electron Microscopy Center<br>
             047E Simon Hall<br>
             IU Bloomington<br>
          812 856 1457 (office)<br>
          812 856 3221 (3200)<br>
      <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iubemcenter.indiana.edu&d=DwIFAw&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=o5hWD3mEM1CnBQcA1CoCbNa2ZHuekOPBxJopTggUSnV5bTDS_itRzHiJgm-MqSkZ&s=fCFZWGmlhcc6nzBlB6MWW5ml9YVPIK3FHs7zbhuCqIs&e=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iubemcenter.indiana.edu&d=DwIFAw&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=o5hWD3mEM1CnBQcA1CoCbNa2ZHuekOPBxJopTggUSnV5bTDS_itRzHiJgm-MqSkZ&s=fCFZWGmlhcc6nzBlB6MWW5ml9YVPIK3FHs7zbhuCqIs&e=</a> <br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 14:45:38 -0800<br>
From: Daniel Asarnow <<a href="mailto:asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu" target="_blank">asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu</a>><br>
To: "Morgan, David Gene" <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [3dem] tilted transfer functions?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
        <<a href="mailto:CALiNCbYfNgD2yzrvMxn6Biiu8Ea6X9%2BU%2Bc20qHF3%2BdfMTrzn4Q@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CALiNCbYfNgD2yzrvMxn6Biiu8Ea6X9+U+c20qHF3+dfMTrzn4Q@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I think any patch-based CTF program, like the one in cryosparc or gCTF's<br>
local mode (with evenly spaced coordinates instead of real particle<br>
locations) would work well. With cryoSPARC there's an easy method to plot<br>
the tilt axis; you can also choose a specific number X and Y divisions for<br>
the patches.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
-da<br>
<br>
On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 2:41 PM Morgan, David Gene <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> What's the best way to evaluate the CTF of an image that has a significant<br>
> amount of tilt?<br>
><br>
> --<br>
>     politics is more difficult than physics.<br>
>                                              A. Einstein<br>
><br>
>             David Gene Morgan<br>
>         Electron Microscopy Center<br>
>              047E Simon Hall<br>
>              IU Bloomington<br>
>           812 856 1457 (office)<br>
>           812 856 3221 (3200)<br>
>       <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iubemcenter.indiana.edu&d=DwIFaQ&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=HH1ykW6tLwgxKgan8Zd6LycpIki40sPo8vvB68LicICQO8KjnJ4KcbS9olx30LkL&s=LvXJmrsSwPkhXWH7WRotXfrp1kAUUBMSB-JXiciGOlg&e=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iubemcenter.indiana.edu&d=DwIFaQ&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=HH1ykW6tLwgxKgan8Zd6LycpIki40sPo8vvB68LicICQO8KjnJ4KcbS9olx30LkL&s=LvXJmrsSwPkhXWH7WRotXfrp1kAUUBMSB-JXiciGOlg&e=</a> <br>
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> _______________________________________________<br>
> 3dem mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a><br>
> <a href="https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 22:50:32 +0000<br>
From: "Morgan, David Gene" <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>><br>
To: Daniel Asarnow <<a href="mailto:asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu" target="_blank">asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [3dem] [External] Re:  tilted transfer functions?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
        <<a href="mailto:MWHPR08MB26405A3E3B47067BC7C8A18CD0019@MWHPR08MB2640.namprd08.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">MWHPR08MB26405A3E3B47067BC7C8A18CD0019@MWHPR08MB2640.namprd08.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Daniel,<br>
<br>
The problem is that the tilt causes the higher resolution Thon rings to become out-of-phase, and so the standard programs can't give a decent estimate of the goodness of-fit.  I vaguely remember that someone had a program that took the tilt into account a number of years ago, but a quick hunt for it didn't turn up anything.<br>
<br>
--<br>
    politics is more difficult than physics.<br>
                                             A. Einstein<br>
<br>
            David Gene Morgan<br>
        Electron Microscopy Center<br>
             047E Simon Hall<br>
             IU Bloomington<br>
          812 856 1457 (office)<br>
          812 856 3221 (3200)<br>
      <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iubemcenter.indiana.edu&d=DwIFAg&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=XfGX1GAOnfj3mLhTnyN8uolpwG3BMtMXZYm0H1sLXZy6LYulpNRf8T8jKuxWTOju&s=qBVmiqzIFHPhsmMv2GVKS3tE0Y3k35YCkiZM5CmZ2cg&e=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iubemcenter.indiana.edu&d=DwIFAg&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=XfGX1GAOnfj3mLhTnyN8uolpwG3BMtMXZYm0H1sLXZy6LYulpNRf8T8jKuxWTOju&s=qBVmiqzIFHPhsmMv2GVKS3tE0Y3k35YCkiZM5CmZ2cg&e=</a> <br>
________________________________<br>
From: Daniel Asarnow <<a href="mailto:asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu" target="_blank">asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 5:45 PM<br>
To: Morgan, David Gene <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [External] Re: [3dem] tilted transfer functions?<br>
<br>
This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.<br>
<br>
I think any patch-based CTF program, like the one in cryosparc or gCTF's local mode (with evenly spaced coordinates instead of real particle locations) would work well. With cryoSPARC there's an easy method to plot the tilt axis; you can also choose a specific number X and Y divisions for the patches.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
-da<br>
<br>
On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 2:41 PM Morgan, David Gene <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
What's the best way to evaluate the CTF of an image that has a significant amount of tilt?<br>
<br>
--<br>
    politics is more difficult than physics.<br>
                                             A. Einstein<br>
<br>
            David Gene Morgan<br>
        Electron Microscopy Center<br>
             047E Simon Hall<br>
             IU Bloomington<br>
          812 856 1457 (office)<br>
          812 856 3221 (3200)<br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 00:07:14 +0100<br>
From: Michael Radermacher <<a href="mailto:Michael.Radermacher@uvm.edu" target="_blank">Michael.Radermacher@uvm.edu</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a><br>
Subject: Re: [3dem] [External] Re: tilted transfer functions?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:cf80c020-6b03-0b4b-65f0-6843eebda42a@uvm.edu" target="_blank">cf80c020-6b03-0b4b-65f0-6843eebda42a@uvm.edu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed<br>
<br>
David, Daniel<br>
<br>
The tilt can be taken into account as described in the CTF correction <br>
section of the paper on the 3D reconstruction of the V1 ATPase:<br>
Journal of Structural Biology, 135 (2001), 26-37, Materials and Methods. <br>
May be this is what you are referring to.<br>
<br>
Essentially you divide the tilt image into equal patches, determine the <br>
CTF for each patch, then fit a plane to the CTF values found. The <br>
equation of this plane then can be used to determine the CTF values of <br>
each boxed out particle based on its location in the large image, and <br>
correct the CTF individually.<br>
-- <br>
_______________<br>
Michael Radermacher, PhD, Prof. Emeritus, FMSA<br>
University of Vermont<br>
Dept. Molecular Physiology and Biophysics<br>
Burlington, VT 05405<br>
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<br>
On 2/28/22 11:50 PM, Morgan, David Gene wrote:<br>
> Daniel,<br>
> <br>
> The problem is that the tilt causes the higher resolution Thon rings to <br>
> become out-of-phase, and so the standard programs can't give a decent <br>
> estimate of the goodness of-fit.? I vaguely remember that someone had a <br>
> program that took the tilt into account a number of years ago, but a <br>
> quick hunt for it didn't turn up anything.<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
>  ? ? politics is more difficult than physics.<br>
>  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?A. Einstein<br>
> <br>
>  ??????????? David Gene Morgan<br>
>  ??????? Electron Microscopy Center<br>
>  ???????????? 047E Simon Hall<br>
>  ???????????? IU Bloomington<br>
>  ????????? 812 856 1457 (office)<br>
>  ????????? 812 856 3221 (3200)<br>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> *From:* Daniel Asarnow <<a href="mailto:asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu" target="_blank">asarnow@msg.ucsf.edu</a>><br>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 28, 2022 5:45 PM<br>
> *To:* Morgan, David Gene <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>><br>
> *Cc:* <a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* [External] Re: [3dem] tilted transfer functions?<br>
> This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution <br>
> when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.<br>
> <br>
> I think any patch-based CTF program, like the one in cryosparc or gCTF's <br>
> local mode (with evenly spaced coordinates instead of real particle <br>
> locations) would work well. With cryoSPARC there's an easy method to <br>
> plot the tilt axis; you can also choose a specific number X and Y <br>
> divisions for the patches.<br>
> <br>
> Best,<br>
> -da<br>
> <br>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 2:41 PM Morgan, David Gene <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>     Hi,<br>
> <br>
>     What's the best way to evaluate the CTF of an image that has a<br>
>     significant amount of tilt?<br>
> <br>
>     -- <br>
>      ? ? politics is more difficult than physics.<br>
>      ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?A. Einstein<br>
> <br>
>      ??????????? David Gene Morgan<br>
>      ??????? Electron Microscopy Center<br>
>      ???????????? 047E Simon Hall<br>
>      ???????????? IU Bloomington<br>
>      ????????? 812 856 1457 (office)<br>
>      ????????? 812 856 3221 (3200)<br>
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> <br>
> <br>
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> <br>
<br>
-- <br>
_______________<br>
Michael Radermacher, PhD, Prof. Emeritus, FMSA<br>
University of Vermont<br>
Dept. Molecular Physiology and Biophysics<br>
Burlington, VT 05405<br>
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Subject: Digest Footer<br>
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End of 3dem Digest, Vol 174, Issue 41<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>