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Claire,</div>
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Thanks. That is something I had not thought about.<br>
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David Gene Morgan<br>
Electron Microscopy Center<br>
047E Simon Hall<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Claire Atkinson <claire.elizabeth.atkinson@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 7, 2021 2:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Thomas Cleveland <thomas.cleveland@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Morgan, David Gene <dagmorga@indiana.edu>; 3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu <3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] Re: [3dem] liquid nitrogen supply lines</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi David,
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<div>Not a comment on copper lines per se but one thing to consider is the length/ volume of the new setup from the scope and how this will impact filling times, we had a longer than spec hose ship with our Glacios and were timing out on not filling the dewars
by 20% in the specified time, causing it to time out and not fill at all. We had to replace the hose with a shorter one to avoid this issue. Probably worth checking with your TF engineer to make sure this doesn't happen to you...</div>
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<div>HTH,</div>
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<div>Claire</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 at 12:03, Thomas Cleveland <<a href="mailto:thomas.cleveland@gmail.com">thomas.cleveland@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi David,
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<div>I'm not an expert at cryo engineering so take this with a grain of salt, but I looked into this a while back for our facility and can share what I remember (we still haven't implemented anything, so I can't say from experience).
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<div>From information I found online, it seems that copper piping is OK for liquid nitrogen, and has actually been used that way for a long time. There are a few special points, e.g. the joints need to be silver brazed, not soldered, to deal with temperature
contraction. Traditionally, closed-cell urethane foam with a PVC outer jacket (as a vapor shield) was used to insulate cryogenic copper pipes. However, supposedly the repeated chill cycles cause this insulation to break down somewhat and lose performance over
a few years. Whether this is a huge problem for you probably depends on how long your pipes are and how expensive your nitrogen supply is. A more modern and lower-maintenance (but more expensive) insulation method is to use vacuum-insulated lines, but I think
this goes back to the stainless steel you were trying to avoid...
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<div>Best,</div>
<div>Tom<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 1:56 PM Morgan, David Gene <<a href="mailto:dagmorga@indiana.edu" target="_blank">dagmorga@indiana.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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Hi,</div>
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Does anyone have a good reason for not using copper pipes to supply liquid nitrogen to cryo-microscopes?
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We are looking to move our liquid nitrogen tank further away from our Arctica. We want to run an insulated line from the new location to where the tank stood and then use a flexible hose to connect from there to the instrument itself. We can make this happen
almost immediately if we use copper, but it will take months and months if we ask for stainless steel.</div>
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Thanks in advance for any advice.<br>
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<div name="x_divtagdefaultwrapper"> David Gene Morgan<br>
Electron Microscopy Center<br>
047E Simon Hall<br>
IU Bloomington<br>
812 856 1457 (office)<br>
812 856 3221 (3200)<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iubemcenter.indiana.edu&d=DwQFAw&c=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA&r=L7-zyQ-04fFCMRqzLIOnx7H0exGZHwIQe_wMPuY600I&m=y3e-gKgl_EXGzBPi-24C-DHZCbVgFBjtlKdlrH6oIlg&s=ELo_Jn6Csff19K4OwPtoT20mAk6BgYmwTjxaSNoTdn4&e=" target="_blank">
http://iubemcenter.indiana.edu</a></div>
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