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</head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; zoom: 0%;" class=""><div dir="auto">Hi Everyone, <br><br></div>
<div dir="auto">I also have been using Synology for more than 5 years now, and for local storage it's been working great so far.<br><br></div>
<div dir="auto">I have 4 units: one 8-bay connected directly to a workstation via 10G SFP+ card, a 12-bay with a 12-bay expansion unit connected to the network via a Synology 10G card, and another 8-bay at home. <br><br></div>
<div dir="auto">Its user interface is quite user-friendly, and Synology releases OS and package updates relatively frequently.<br><br></div>
<div dir="auto">Cheers, <br><br></div>
<div dir="auto">Gökhan <br><br></div>
<div dir="auto"><!-- tmjah_g_1299s -->_____________________________<!-- tmjah_g_1299e --><br></div>
<div dir="auto"><!-- tmjah_g_1299s -->Sent from a mobile device<!-- tmjah_g_1299e --><br></div>
<div dir="auto"><!-- tmjah_g_1299s -->Please excuse brevity, typos and autocorrect errors.<!-- tmjah_g_1299e --></div>
<div class="gmail_quote" >On 3 Apr 2021, at 11:59 am, "Ludtke, Steven J." <<a href="mailto:sludtke@bcm.edu" target="_blank">sludtke@bcm.edu</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="">It is quite possible to purchase a decent 10 Gbe copper switch nowadays for relatively little money. I am using a Netgear XS512EM, in the lab. It can do nonblocking 10G over copper on all 12 ports (it claims). I haven't pushed those limits, as
I only have a handful of machines with 10G connections. </div>
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<div class="">While some institutions are beginning to upgrade internally to 10G, the ones who adopted 1G over a decade ago often used Cat5 cabling internally, which isn't capable of reliable 10G connectivity, which means those institutions are faced with the
possibility of having to rewire everything they want to provide 10G support to. Anyway, my stopgap solution was to just set up a deadnet in the lab for NAS and inter-machine communications. Really no different than a small cluster :^)</div>
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<div class="">I will add that I was not trying to sell Synology on labs with solid IT expertise needing to set up a petabyte of storage. I was saying that for smaller labs Synology presents a very friendly solution, and I dispute the statement that it is "lower
quality" in some way. </div>
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<div class="">I have been running standard Supermicro storage rackmount units for ~15 years (a common platform for trueNAS; enterprise grade). They are excellent, of course, and I highly recommend them, but over a 5+ year period they are NOT worry-free. They
develop hardware issues, such as failed power supplies, failed RAID cards, etc. Further, if you fully populate them at time of purchase that also means that the drives will start approaching EOL all at about the same time (anywhere from 3-8 years depending
on how lucky you got with a particular batch of drives), leading to very high risk of data loss even with RAID 6. These boxes are not for labs who say "we don't have much IT experience/support", even if you run something like freeNAS. They will likely be great
for 3-4 years before you start running into issues.</div>
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</div>
<div class="">Before the Synology boxes, the standard solution in the lab was to buy Supermicro workstations with 8 hot-swap drive bays and an internal hardware RAID card. This would give about 800-900 MB/s of bandwidth as a RAID 5, and have a lot of space.
However, this storage is all local to the machine, and moving large data over a 1 GB network is ~100 MB/s, so painful for some things. The Synology boxes can sit under the desk, and will email you when there is a drive failure or any other issue, and can still
provide roughly the same performance as the previous CPU-tied storage (with the 10 Gbe card). </div>
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<div class="">I will say that one of my biggest issues over the last couple of years is having RAID cards failing in the Supermicro units, and having to go to eBay, etc, to find equivalent replacements, to avoid having to wipe 500 TB of data and copy from backup
(the newer RAID cards are often not quite compatible enough with the older cards). Even with the synology boxes, expect that you will likely have to 'refresh' the technology in 5-8 years.</div>
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<div class="" style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 14px;">Steven Ludtke, Ph.D. <<a href="mailto:sludtke@bcm.edu" class="">sludtke@bcm.edu</a>> Baylor College of Medicine </div>
<div class="" style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 14px;">Charles C. Bell Jr., Professor of Structural Biology<br class="">
Dept. of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bcm.edu/biochem__;!!Mih3wA!QqNkIZ5jKtLOqfQMjz4WRKgTOwRG6vN7T-WXpc3rmuCsqkxWaW2loOQA1rzeeNj2rQ$" class="">www.bcm.edu/biochem</a>)</div>
<div class="" style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 14px;">Academic Director, CryoEM Core (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://cryoem.bcm.edu__;!!Mih3wA!QqNkIZ5jKtLOqfQMjz4WRKgTOwRG6vN7T-WXpc3rmuCsqkxWaW2loOQA1rwI4feYjQ$" class="">cryoem.bcm.edu</a>)<br class="">
Co-Director CIBR Center (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bcm.edu/research/cibr__;!!Mih3wA!QqNkIZ5jKtLOqfQMjz4WRKgTOwRG6vN7T-WXpc3rmuCsqkxWaW2loOQA1rz3q6kp4w$" class="">www.bcm.edu/research/cibr</a>)<br class="">
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<div class="">On Apr 2, 2021, at 7:12 PM, Charles Bayly-Jones <<a href="mailto:charles.bayly-jones@monash.edu" class="">charles.bayly-jones@monash.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class=""><font size="2" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><b class="">***CAUTION:***
This email is not from a BCM Source. Only click links or open attachments you know are safe.</b></font><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span>
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Hi all.
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<div class="">Our lab is also currently making similar considerations for a moderately large server. So this email chain has been quite serendipitous.</div>
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</div>
<div class="">I'm wondering whether those (Chen, Steve, Matthias, Tim) with external servers (45drives, trueNAS, synology, etc) might comment on their network setup? Did you opt for a special network switch? Has this been necessary or can these servers directly
host the workstations? What kind of local network infrastructure do you use? Connections, SFP+/RJ45/some fancy optical thing?</div>
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<div class="">I note Steve has said, in the small 12-drive synologyNAS that a 10Gbe (RJ45?) card has been sufficient for ~950/600 MB/s IO. I recall the synology can be networked directly to workstations without the need for a switch, if I'm not mistaken. So
what is people's experience with the other larger servers? </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Perhaps you might also comment on your typical use case? E.g. is your server for long term storage of processed or raw data? Or is it rather a scratch space for analysis with read & write? </div>
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<div class="">Very best,</div>
<div class="">Charles</div>
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<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">_________________</span><font size="2" class=""><b style="font-family: "arial narrow", sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">
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<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><font size="2" class=""><b style="font-family: "arial narrow", sans-serif;" class="">Charles Bayly-Jones</b><br class="">
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<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" class="">BSc(ScSchProg)(Hons)</font></div>
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<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><b class="">Monash Biomedicine Discovery Institute & </b></font><b style="font-size: small; font-family: "arial narrow", sans-serif;" class="">ARC CoE in advanced
molecular imaging</b></div>
<div class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><b class="">Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology </b></font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" class="">Rm 218, Level 2, Building 77</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" class="">23 Innovation Walk</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" class="">Clayton VIC 3800</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" class="">Australia</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12.8px;" class=""><img src="https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/image/0006/1087638/monash-logo.jpg" alt="Image result for monash university logo" width="200" height="37" class=""><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><br class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 at 04:23, Xu, Chen <<a href="mailto:Chen.Xu@umassmed.edu" class="">Chen.Xu@umassmed.edu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
We also have very positive experience with FreeNAS/TruNAS system. Here is the shop for their<br class="">
on-the-shelf units.<br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/stores/iXsystems/page/C88EFDE3-3E4C-4951-860E-0E8A8BD91BF9?ref_=ast_bln__;!!Mih3wA!XMzGwejDpzMf8LVPKLKH7ywovtHBrbzH4RFa7s3_HCHKfln9EJAtGF_JwCOnSJxj9w$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/stores/iXsystems/page/C88EFDE3-3E4C-4951-860E-0E8A8BD91BF9?ref_=ast_bln__;!!Mih3wA!XMzGwejDpzMf8LVPKLKH7ywovtHBrbzH4RFa7s3_HCHKfln9EJAtGF_JwCOnSJxj9w$</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
-Chen<br class="">
<br class="">
________________________________________<br class="">
From: 3dem <<a href="mailto:3dem-bounces@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank" class="">3dem-bounces@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>> on behalf of Matthias Wolf <<a href="mailto:matthias.wolf@oist.jp" target="_blank" class="">matthias.wolf@oist.jp</a>><br class="">
Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 11:27 AM<br class="">
To: Krishan Pandey;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank" class="">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a><br class="">
Subject: Re: [3dem] Data storage system<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Krishan,<br class="">
<br class="">
Our 60-drive 760 TB FreeNAS has been running flawless since more than 1 year. One failed drive was easily hot swapped. If you want capacity, this does not cost more per TB than inferior hardware, yet you get good redundancy and performance.<br class="">
<br class="">
See my old tweet here<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/hicryoem/status/1223966559976083458?s=21__;!!Mih3wA!XMzGwejDpzMf8LVPKLKH7ywovtHBrbzH4RFa7s3_HCHKfln9EJAtGF_JwCPmSkFojQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/hicryoem/status/1223966559976083458?s=21__;!!Mih3wA!XMzGwejDpzMf8LVPKLKH7ywovtHBrbzH4RFa7s3_HCHKfln9EJAtGF_JwCPmSkFojQ$</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Ftwitter.com*2Fhicryoem*2Fstatus*2F1223966559976083458*3Fs*3D21__*3B!!Mih3wA!TpItSV7E6sE1qSO0JgCwUfuLYuNhW92PMSZUaIF70zdj2z4BE_zg2izktUsKL5clRQ*24&data=04*7C01*7CChen.Xu*40umassmed.edu*7Ca3ecd1c220144d5c148208d8f5ebdb95*7Cee9155fe2da34378a6c44405faf57b2e*7C0*7C1*7C637529740649781691*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C2000&sdata=kHkXkbLqxxMR*2F*2FgoMCQQQxjSAvsIXrzIxrf93xWYXrE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!XMzGwejDpzMf8LVPKLKH7ywovtHBrbzH4RFa7s3_HCHKfln9EJAtGF_JwCOaPADKzw$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Ftwitter.com*2Fhicryoem*2Fstatus*2F1223966559976083458*3Fs*3D21__*3B!!Mih3wA!TpItSV7E6sE1qSO0JgCwUfuLYuNhW92PMSZUaIF70zdj2z4BE_zg2izktUsKL5clRQ*24&data=04*7C01*7CChen.Xu*40umassmed.edu*7Ca3ecd1c220144d5c148208d8f5ebdb95*7Cee9155fe2da34378a6c44405faf57b2e*7C0*7C1*7C637529740649781691*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C2000&sdata=kHkXkbLqxxMR*2F*2FgoMCQQQxjSAvsIXrzIxrf93xWYXrE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!XMzGwejDpzMf8LVPKLKH7ywovtHBrbzH4RFa7s3_HCHKfln9EJAtGF_JwCOaPADKzw$</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>><br class="">
<br class="">
Matthias<br class="">
<br class="">
________________________________<br class="">
From: 3dem <<a href="mailto:3dem-bounces@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank" class="">3dem-bounces@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a>> on behalf of Krishan Pandey <<a href="mailto:krishan.pandey@health.slu.edu" target="_blank" class="">krishan.pandey@health.slu.edu</a>><br class="">
Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 03:59<br class="">
To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" target="_blank" class="">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a><br class="">
Subject: [3dem] Data storage system<br class="">
<br class="">
Hello,<br class="">
<br class="">
I am requesting suggestions and cost estimates about off the shelf data storage systems to store raw cryo-EM movies and processed data for our lab. Our initial target is 150-200 TB with options to expand it in future.<br class="">
We don't have much local IT support for Linux based systems, that's why I am asking for an off-the shelf system which should be easier to install and manage.<br class="">
<br class="">
Thank you<br class="">
best regards<br class="">
<br class="">
Krishan Pandey<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">3dem
mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu_mailman_listinfo_3dem&d=DwICAg&c=ZQs-KZ8oxEw0p81sqgiaRA&r=Dk5VoQQ-wINYVssLMZihyC5Dj_sWYKxCyKz9E4Lp3gc&m=07leD78FMARmu-HCbe03-DEChzbpMryPIQrKaR5vjrQ&s=WWJu2lEePTMP8E49792X6Z5bZvvO--YAJn-joW_9exk&e=" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu_mailman_listinfo_3dem&d=DwICAg&c=ZQs-KZ8oxEw0p81sqgiaRA&r=Dk5VoQQ-wINYVssLMZihyC5Dj_sWYKxCyKz9E4Lp3gc&m=07leD78FMARmu-HCbe03-DEChzbpMryPIQrKaR5vjrQ&s=WWJu2lEePTMP8E49792X6Z5bZvvO--YAJn-joW_9exk&e=</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span></div>
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<pre class="blue"><hr><br>3dem mailing list<br>3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu<br><a href="https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem">https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem</a><br></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>