<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
Hi George,
<div class="">It's no problem, and a lot of image processing people do read this list, but it is mainly focused on CryoEM and CryoET. Both of these produce very noisy data, on which edge detection algorithms often don't work well (or at all). You may find
some people in this list with comments on your specific question, particularly from those doing freeze-substitution and other higher contrast lower resolution methods.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For myself (EMAN2), for discrete edges like binary masks, we sometimes use standard methods such as erosion or dilation for expansion/contraction. However, for a smoother edge following effect, our typical approach is to binarize the mask (if
it isn't already) apply an isotropic low-pass filter, then threshold the filter at a lower level. By adjusting the thresholding level and filter shape a range of different 'curve following' effects can be achieved. Certainly there are many different approaches
which can be used. By and large we have eschewed the sort of processing where shapes are explicitly identified, due to the noise levels. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There is a tool in EMAN2 called e2filtertool.py in which you can build chains of image processing operations and interactively adjust the parameters (both 2-D and 3-D data). You can use this to experiment with any of the methods we have implemented
(~230 algorithms at last count, ranging from very simple, to very complicated). We also have a set of programs for deep-learning based segmentation, which can often do some surprising things.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">cheers</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<font face="Courier" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">
Steven Ludtke, Ph.D. <<a href="mailto:sludtke@bcm.edu" class="">sludtke@bcm.edu</a>> Baylor College of Medicine <br class="">
Charles C. Bell Jr., Professor of Structural Biology<br class="">
Dept. of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (<a href="http://www.bcm.edu/biochem" class="">www.bcm.edu/biochem</a>)<br class="">
Academic Director, CryoEM Core (<a href="http://cryoem.bcm.edu" class="">cryoem.bcm.edu</a>)<br class="">
Co-Director CIBR Center (<a href="http://www.bcm.edu/research/cibr" class="">www.bcm.edu/research/cibr</a>)<br class="">
<br class="">
</span></font><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:59 PM, Glidden, George (NIH/NIAID) [F] <<a href="mailto:george.glidden@nih.gov" class="">george.glidden@nih.gov</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
I should have been more specific – the algorithm is specifically for use in the segmentation of EM data, wherein this algorithm would be one step in preprocessing, with inpainted edges allowing for better extractions of regions of interest.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
Apologies if this was the wrong list to post this question to.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Ludtke, Steven J. <<a href="mailto:sludtke@bcm.edu" class="">sludtke@bcm.edu</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 29, 2019 11:55 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Glidden, George (NIH/NIAID) [F] <<a href="mailto:george.glidden@nih.gov" class="">george.glidden@nih.gov</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [3dem] Edge bitmap curvature analysis<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
Hi George, not quite clear how this is cryoem-related? What sort of images are you analyzing and what exactly arw you trying to accomplish? As a general question seems more appropriate for a CS/computer vision list.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
Sent from my iPhone<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<br class="">
On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Glidden, George (NIH/NIAID) [F] <<a href="mailto:george.glidden@nih.gov" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">george.glidden@nih.gov</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">***CAUTION:*** This email is not from a BCM Source. Only click links or open attachments you know are safe.</span></b><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center" class="">
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
Hi all,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
First time posting to this list and unsure of how long / how much detail to include in the emails, so I’ll keep this as brief as possible:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
I’ve been doing work into edge inpainting approaches using information from the curvature of the existing edges to recreate the occluded or otherwise missing points.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
One method I have recently developed divides<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">edge strips</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>– continuous lists of adjacent edge pixels without branches – into curves, split on inflection points
calculated from the distance between each point and an approximated center of the strip; i.e., the inflection points of the curve of a vector-valued function. In other words, the strips are split into regions of uniform concavity - concavity relative to the
strip, not to a cartesian coordinate plane.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
(My definition of edge strips is based on the definition given in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_publication_261999152-5FA-5FFast-5Fand-5FRobust-5FEllipse-2DDetection-5FMethod-5FBased-5Fon-5FSorted-5FMerging&d=DwMFAg&c=ZQs-KZ8oxEw0p81sqgiaRA&r=Dk5VoQQ-wINYVssLMZihyC5Dj_sWYKxCyKz9E4Lp3gc&m=NCJUJybdIpPQDddFIr8a-hCtUiboMu5alfSyxooTDTE&s=nqXemHJADlGIKg_QLDshiMl-6qMFvjv2qLghfZ1vCgc&e=" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">this
publication</a>, and the my scripts process the results of modified steps 1 and 2 in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">2.1 Line Segment Extraction</i>.)<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
Has anyone previously encountered and solved a problem like this, or otherwise, are there suggestions for better, more mathematically rigorous approaches to this problem (ones that don’t rely on as much approximation)?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
I’m required to list all of my github repositories privately, but I will happily individually provide access to anyone interested in this problem.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
Thank you!<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
George<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
3dem mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">3dem@ncmir.ucsd.edu</a><br class="">
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu_mailman_listinfo_3dem&d=DwICAg&c=ZQs-KZ8oxEw0p81sqgiaRA&r=Dk5VoQQ-wINYVssLMZihyC5Dj_sWYKxCyKz9E4Lp3gc&m=NCJUJybdIpPQDddFIr8a-hCtUiboMu5alfSyxooTDTE&s=lBdaTBxvpnjz77DxykFEC3FBZCpU056WfZdAwJ5DzcE&e=" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu_mailman_listinfo_3dem&d=DwICAg&c=ZQs-KZ8oxEw0p81sqgiaRA&r=Dk5VoQQ-wINYVssLMZihyC5Dj_sWYKxCyKz9E4Lp3gc&m=NCJUJybdIpPQDddFIr8a-hCtUiboMu5alfSyxooTDTE&s=lBdaTBxvpnjz77DxykFEC3FBZCpU056WfZdAwJ5DzcE&e=</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</body>
</html>