<p dir="ltr">Hi,</p>
<p dir="ltr">a double-blind request does not mean one suddenly has to put effort in order to stay anonymous. Just keep writing as before. We know this process is not guaranteeing anonymity - but it gives more than before, no?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Conflicts of interest dont play a role anymore, if one doesnt know, who is involved, right? And if one has a suspicion, one can let the editor know and make him double-check... In a double-blind more responsibility may go to the editors et al. </p>
<p dir="ltr">"As previously described", followed by a citation certainly gives another clue. But then again, it could be misleading. One doesnt know, no?</p>
<p dir="ltr">I agree, a double-blind process is not perfect. But why serving reviewers the exact names, their order and all? </p>
<p dir="ltr">Best,<br>
Stefan.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 2, 2015 8:44 AM, "Edward Egelman" <<a href="mailto:egelman@virginia.edu">egelman@virginia.edu</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi,<br>
The first problem is that authors need to invest great effort to
"anonymize" their paper. There can be no obvious citations to their
own work. Given that most of our work is part of long-term interest
in particular projects, this is not simple. Consider the Methods
section, where one cannot say that a sample was prepared as
previously described. So one writes a detailed methods description,
but it would be obvious that this is the same as in another
publication. For a field as small as cryo-EM, most of us would be
able to correctly guess the origin of a paper. So why then pretend
that it is blind, when the authors will be known? It also becomes
impossible to establish conflicts of interest. I have declined to
review papers since I have recently collaborated with the authors,
etc. If the authors are not known, then these conflicts will not be
resolved.<br>
Regards,<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<div>On 5/2/15 11:29 AM, Stefan Bohn wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Hi,</p>
<p dir="ltr">regarding double-blind review process: </p>
<p dir="ltr">The community is expanding at great speed. I can not
follow the argumentation, that just because we can search for
scientists and their equipment online, we shouldnt have
double-blind. Sure, often enough the experienced reviewer will
be able to make the right guess - but it will remain a guess. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Equipment: right now microscopes and awesome cameras
are popping up everywhere - and often times these are shared
among groups making it more difficult even to guess the names of
all people involved, including their order, etc...</p>
<p dir="ltr">Isn't double-blind a step forward? Why does a
reviewer need to know the names of the authors? I never
understood this, I find it distracting from the core idea of
scientific evaluation. The work is supposed to be the center,
not the names. Anonymity is not guaranteed, clearly - but is
that the only reason to abolish double-blind?</p>
<p dir="ltr">In an ideal world, we wouldnt need to think about
this, as we would disregard the name and fame involved. But I
agree with Sjors, that having the name of the reviewer public,
may bias their review - consciously or unkowingly.</p>
<p dir="ltr">What other caveats of double-blind could there be
(besides having the trouble to search online)?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Best,<br>
Stefan.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 2, 2015 7:02 AM, "Edward Egelman"
<<a href="mailto:egelman@virginia.edu" target="_blank">egelman@virginia.edu</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
Thanks for pointing this out, since the submission date to
these archives (EMDB and PDB) is quite clear. They already
have a strict policy: no one has access prior to release!<br>
Regards,<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
On 5/2/15 9:57 AM, Hongwei Wang wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Dear all,<br>
<br>
I strongly support the openness of science as suggested by
Ed, Eva, Gab,<br>
Sjors and many others on the mail list. I totally agree that
having direct<br>
assessment of the 3D map and models and even a few raw
micrographs by the<br>
reviewers will only make the story more solid. The ultimate
publication will<br>
also benefit from this for test in the future.<br>
<br>
I would like to propose, for the worrisome of competition,
that the<br>
community takes account of the map or model's valid
deposition date on the<br>
databank server as a criteria to evaluate the novelty and
originality of the<br>
work besides the paper's publishing date (receiving date and
accepted date<br>
too). Of course, the databank server will need to set clear
and strict rules<br>
on the validity of the deposition and probably set some new
policy on who<br>
may access the deposited map or models before final release.
Grant's<br>
bioarxiv idea may serve similar function as well.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Hongwei<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
i would be interested in experiences / suggestions / views
of others<br>
in the field on the following issue that may be of
interest to many<br>
of us:<br>
the editor of our manuscript forwarded the request of a
peer-reviewer<br>
to access the cryo-em map of our beloved complex. this has
never<br>
happened to us, but to our surprise the editor did not
consider the<br>
request to be unusual.<br>
of course, we share the point that the map would be of
great help in<br>
judging the interpretation of the data. however, we also
feel very<br>
uncomfortable sending the condensed result of lengthy
research to an<br>
anonymous colleague, who could theoretically make
considerable misuse<br>
of it. nevertheless, the policy of the journal seems to
let us little<br>
choice: "Supporting<br>
data must be made available to editors and peer-reviewers
at the time<br>
of submission for the purposes of evaluating the
manuscript.<br>
Peer-reviewers may be asked to comment on the terms of
access to<br>
materials, methods and/or data sets".<br>
in any case we would be curious whether others indeed got
similar<br>
requests and how they dealt with it. a good solution for
(paranoid?)<br>
people like us could be a good web-based viewer that lets
others view<br>
our map, but i would not know of such a tool.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Friedrich<br>
<br>
--<br>
Dr. Friedrich Foerster<br>
Max-Planck Institut fuer Biochemie<br>
Am Klopferspitz 18<br>
D-82152 Martinsried<br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%2B49%2089%208578%202632" value="+498985782632" target="_blank">+49 89 8578 2632</a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%2B49%2089%208578%202641" value="+498985782641" target="_blank">+49 89 8578 2641</a><br>
<br>
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Sjors Scheres<br>
MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology<br>
Francis Crick Avenue, Cambridge Biomedical Campus Cambridge
CB2 0QH, U.K.<br>
tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%291223%20267061" value="+441223267061" target="_blank">+44 (0)1223 267061</a><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
Edward H. Egelman, Ph.D.<br>
Professor<br>
Dept. of Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics<br>
University of Virginia<br>
<br>
President<br>
Biophysical Society<br>
<br>
phone: <a href="tel:434-924-8210" value="+14349248210" target="_blank">434-924-8210</a><br>
fax: <a href="tel:434-924-5069" value="+14349245069" target="_blank">434-924-5069</a><br>
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<fieldset></fieldset>
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<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Edward H. Egelman, Ph.D.
Professor
Dept. of Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics
University of Virginia
President
Biophysical Society
phone: <a href="tel:434-924-8210" value="+14349248210" target="_blank">434-924-8210</a>
fax: <a href="tel:434-924-5069" value="+14349245069" target="_blank">434-924-5069</a>
<a href="mailto:egelman@virginia.edu" target="_blank">egelman@virginia.edu</a>
<a href="http://www.people.virginia.edu/~ehe2n" target="_blank">http://www.people.virginia.edu/~ehe2n</a>
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