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I'm not sure if endless echoing is going to be that worthwhile, but I'll add that I have been involved in a couple of reviews where not only were final maps required, but a reviewer (not me) actually requested the raw data (or a portion of the raw data) involved
in the reconstruction! I know I am not alone in seeing cases like this. Admittedly in these cases, the editor did seem a bit taken aback, but still followed through after discussing with the author.
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<div class="">I cannot see that one has any ground to stand upon in refusing to submit their final map to reviewers. In theory the paper should encompass the entire results of the study. The fact that it isn't possible to fully represent the data in the publication
itself doesn't negate the philosophical point. Either you are ready to release your result to the world or you aren't. Publishing isn't about hiding things, it's about spreading your new knowledge as widely as possible. Given the requirement to deposit to
the EMDB, at most this gives the reviewer a brief lead on general public access. The 'hold past publication' policy in the databases is transitioning out anyway. The excuse that "it took me 3 years to solve the structure and it will take me another 2 years
to really dissect the map" is fading as cryoEM is becoming a higher throughput technique. The idea that you so mistrust your colleagues that you would require an MTA for the review process is completely ludicrous. If there are IP concerns about a particular
result, you should not publish it until you are ready to share with the world. I, for one, have no problem in forgoing my anonymity in the review process, as journals like eLife promote, but I can at least understand the value in being permitted to remain
anonymous. If there are specific colleagues that you fear will misuse your data, you should identify them in the cover letter to the editor with your reasoning, and trust the ethics of the editor.
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<div class="">On Apr 30, 2015, at 4:46 PM, Gabriel Lander <<a href="mailto:glander@scripps.edu" class="">glander@scripps.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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I would like to echo Eva & Ed’s comments (I am also NOT a reviewer).
<div class="">Given that the EM field hasn’t really settled on a robust methodology to statistically assess the accuracy & validity of a density (yes we have gold standard FSC, local resolution plots, tilt-pair validation, etc. but these are not 100% foolproof,
& there are ways to inflate resolution nonetheless), we generally rely on our eyes to ascertain the quality of map.</div>
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<div class="">I’m sure your density doesn’t fall into this category of “inaccurate” structure determination, so I’m curious what you think a reviewer might do with your density to misuse it?</div>
<div class="">I agree with Ed that all densities should be uploaded with a submitted manuscript, and I am happy to do this for any manuscripts we send out.</div>
<div class="">-gabe</div>
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<div class="">On Apr 30, 2015, at 2:16 PM, Eva Nogales <<a href="mailto:enogales@lbl.gov" class="">enogales@lbl.gov</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""><font face="Helvetica Neue" class="">Hi Friedrich,<br class="">
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We got the same request and we provided the map and model as a Chimera session to the editor and reviewer. I understand your point, but we have to trust the system and understand where the reviewers may be coming from. We do know of more than one example where
having had such access may have precluded publication of</font><font face="Helvetica Neue" class=""><font face="Helvetica Neue" class=""> some really terrible structures</font>. It will be interesting to hear what others think (and I have no doubt the reviewer(s)
that asked for your and our maps is/are within the list reading this email...)<br class="">
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Eva<br class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/30/15 1:49 PM, Friedrich Foerster wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">dear colleagues,<br class="">
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i would be interested in experiences / suggestions / views of others in the field on the following issue that may be of interest to many of us:<br class="">
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the editor of our manuscript forwarded the request of a peer-reviewer to access the cryo-em map of our beloved complex. this has never happened to us, but to our surprise the editor did not consider the request to be unusual.<br class="">
of course, we share the point that the map would be of great help in judging the interpretation of the data. however, we also feel very uncomfortable sending the condensed result of lengthy research to an anonymous colleague, who could theoretically make considerable
misuse of it. nevertheless, the policy of the journal seems to let us little choice: "<font size="2" class="">Supporting data must be made available to editors and peer</font><font size="2" class="">-</font><font size="2" class="">reviewers at the time of</font><font size="2" class="">
submission for the purposes of evaluating the manuscript.</font><font size="2" class=""> Peer</font><font size="2" class="">-</font><font size="2" class="">reviewers</font><font size="2" class=""> may be asked</font><font size="2" class=""> to comment on the
terms of access to materials, methods and/or data sets</font><font size="2" class="">"</font>.<br class="">
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in any case we would be curious whether others indeed got similar requests and how they dealt with it. a good solution for (paranoid?) people like us could be a good web-based viewer that lets others view our map, but i would not know of such a tool.<br class="">
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Thanks <br class="">
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Friedrich<br clear="all" class="">
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-- <br class="">
<div class="gmail_signature">Dr. Friedrich Foerster<br class="">
Max-Planck Institut fuer Biochemie<br class="">
Am Klopferspitz 18<br class="">
D-82152 Martinsried<br class="">
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Tel: +49 89 8578 2632<br class="">
Fax: +49 89 8578 2641<br class="">
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.biochem.mpg.de/foerster" target="_blank" class="">www.biochem.mpg.de/foerster</a><br class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
__________________________________________________________________
Eva Nogales
Howard Hughes Medical Institute
Molecular and Cell Biology Department
QB3, Stanley Hall 708C
University of California, Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-3220
Phone: (510) 642-0557 Fax: (510) 666-3336
URL: <a href="http://cryoem.berkeley.edu/" class="">cryoem.berkeley.edu</a>
(510) 666-3334 Teresa Tucker, Assistant to Eva Nogales
Professor, UC Berkeley and Lawrence Berkeley Natl. Lab
__________________________________________________________________
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