[3dem] Elsa cryo holder

Thu Jun 13 08:45:05 PDT 2019

Hi Haifeng,

I used to use an F20 with a modified cold trap (a larger dewar that would last most of the night if I recall correctly), and I think the vendor mentioned that since this was an after-market modification, they couldn't be held responsible for any issues we encountered with it. I can't remember the vendor who made said dewar and cover, and the plate where the dear is held also had to be modified (for a larger diameter).

Just my two cents on using after-market dewars. Of course, that me only be the case for 120-200kV scopes of certain generations, and not more modern ones with auto-fillers.

Also, thanks to everyone who chimed in on the boxes. Lots of good info.

Mariena

________________________________
From: 3dem <3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Haifeng He <haifenghe at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 11:37:37 AM
To: Grassucci, Robert
Cc: 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
Subject: Re: [3dem] Elsa cryo holder

The other thread was talking about the 3D printing gridbox. It maybe helpful for other ELSA users if I put our solution for a bigger cold trap dewar here (more than 12 hours no problem) with a 3D printing of an adaptor for it to sit. However, I just found out the vender that we bought our 3L coffee pot from disappeared from the web. We ordered ours before the trade war, not sure if that's the cause. Anyway, the company that I found that offer a 3L coffee pot used to be here:
https://www.mokeyinternational.com/item/?id=B01M14D29B

See the attached for a matching adaptor's 3D printing file that this 3L pot sits on. This 3L pot is almost perfectly designed for the Technai TEM--even the old cap works with it. See an attached image for how it works in real world--the design works with the handle off--just my preference.

In case you couldn't contact the vendor, I have a smaller 2L version of the cold trap with a matching 3D file. See attached. But the adaptor works with the handle intact. It maybe enough for the ELSA. And the link still works:
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/choice-1-9-liter-insulated-thermal-coffee-server/922SA19X.html

Regards,
Haifeng

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:45 AM Haifeng He <haifenghe at gmail.com<mailto:haifenghe at gmail.com>> wrote:
We have seen a few times contamination problems at the start of the day. We have done the following to minimize the issue: pre-cool ELSA at least half an hour before loading the grids. Also cool the cold trap even longer if you could. If you load your grids too soon, the temperature will rise significantly once you put it into the column (we believe the rod design difference is the cause). We still see contamination sometimes, but usually the 2nd one and on are ok. Due to our many users we also continuously use the ELSA no stop often. The previous user fill the LN at 11-12 pm, and the next user take over around 9ish in the morning no problem. Read bellow for more good and bad of the ELSA.

In extreme, we got 11-12 hrs for ELSA to keep Cryo, 8-10 as a norm which allowed us to use it continuously. We bake out about once a week. The drift of ELSA is also very impressive: with active heating on, the drift is usually better than the 626.6.

Now came to the bad part: we got pretty annoying resolution anisotropy (stage Y much worse than X). We played alot here on the V-grove but doesn't help that much. Gatan is not very helpful here either, their measurement of "resolution" (they use "interferometer" to measure some vibration kind of thing) showed ok. In comparison, the 626.6 holder shoot for better than 2.3A with a cross grating specimen easily on our F20 (their resolution spec is to be able to see the 2.3A Xgrating diff line on all directions). You may ask why the amazing drift rate of ELSA didn't help here? I believe it's some high frequency vibrations that the drift couldn't help with. For example, in the stage X direction, even if it is still drifting crazy and a bad summed Thon Ring, the MotionCorr corrected image recovered all the lost Thon Ring. The K2 is just amazing.

We were thinking of buying another ELSA, but this resolution story hesitated us. In principle, due to the use of many particles, you may still be able to get high resolution, but with double or quadruple the number of particles than necessary on a better holder.

In short for potential buyers, if a long Cryo holding time is all you need, go for it, otherwise think again. But, I do hope we are the only exception. And frustratingly, Gatan didn't offer any help further.

Regards,
Haifeng

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 8:07 AM Grassucci, Robert <rg2502 at cumc.columbia.edu<mailto:rg2502 at cumc.columbia.edu>> wrote:

Dear Anastasia,

We tried out the ultra-low profile Elsa and liked the ability to recover the grids but did not like the robustness of the clipping system.  We have a Gatan 914 holder and have had to replace the front spring on several occasions because it eventually gets bent or loose and no longer clamps the grid properly.  This may be why you are seeing with the leopard skin ice.  The conduction on the grid may not be sufficient to maintain a temperature that will keep vitreous ice on the grid.  This holder is great for a very experienced and careful user but definitely not for general use.  That is our experience with the Elsa.  Hope it helps.

Regards,

Bob

From: 3dem [mailto:3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu<mailto:3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Anastasia Gazi
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:01 AM
To: 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu<mailto:3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [3dem] Elsa cryo holder

Dear all,

I would be grateful if someone of you could share some more information related to the ELSA cryoholders.

We extensively tried out the ultra-low profile (ULP) tip for 2 weeks and the results were quite controversial.

The stability of the holder was amazing in comparison to our 626 cryoholders but there was a regular appearing of leopard/orange skin on the grids.

We believe that this might be related to leakage at the loading station but I wonder if someone else had the same experience with its own ELSA (ULP or standard tip profile).

Thank you a lot for your help,

Anastasia

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 at 00:38, David Michael Belnap <David.Belnap at utah.edu<mailto:David.Belnap at utah.edu>> wrote:

I don’t know, Benjamin.  Elsa freezes things so fast that maybe she is really making vitreous ice!  :-)

On Jan 4, 2018, at 10:13 AM, Benjamin Bammes <bbammes at gmail.com<mailto:bbammes at gmail.com>> wrote:

While I don't know anything about the holder, I find the name "Elsa" a bit humorous. For anyone with young kids who has watched the movie Frozen, you know that Elsa does two things: (1) She turns everything she touches to solid ice, and (2) She always wants to "let it go." Both of those things are undesirable for cryo holders! :-)

----
Benjamin Bammes

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:21 PM, jamonshi <jamonshi at gmail.com<mailto:jamonshi at gmail.com>> wrote:

Our local sales says

"Gatan has not shipped any production 698 Elas holder yet. The holders won’t start shipping until March of 2018. Gatan cannot discover where they tested the holder, as that is not a complete product and the development is confidential."

Cheers,
Jian

On 04/01/2018 06:36, Elizabeth Montabana wrote:

Hi All

I haven't seen any responses to this, but we are also curious about if anyone has purchased or tested an Elsa Cryo transfer holder and their opinion about it - particularly, if folks have been able to get high resolution data with it.

thanks

Liz Montabana

Donner Labs, LBNL

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 4:54 AM, Anastasia Gazi <anadegaz at gmail.com<mailto:anadegaz at gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello all,

We are considering the purchase of an Elsa Cryo transfer holder Model 698 from Gatan. It is looking great on paper with its centrosymmetric design, extended hold time to 8h and everything but I am wondering if someone has already experience with it. Either with the standard profile holder or with the ultra-low one.

Thank you for your help,

Anastasia

==================================================
Anastasia D. Gazi, PhD.
Ultrastructural BioImaging unit,
Départment de Biologie cellulaire et infection,
Institut Pasteur
28, rue du Dr. Roux
75015 PARIS
FRANCE

agazi at pasteur.fr<mailto:agazi at pasteur.fr>

==================================================

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