[3dem] "leopard skin" ice

Fri Nov 22 11:27:18 PST 2013

Dear All,
It can't be turtle ice.  Their scutes are usually square- more in line with cubic ice ;)

Cheers,

Valorie
vdb at purdue.edu
________________________________________
From: 3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu [3dem-bounces at ncmir.ucsd.edu] on behalf of Dianne Taylor [dianne at bio.fsu.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:42 PM
To: Bob Grassucci; 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
Subject: Re: [3dem] "leopard skin" ice

Here in Florida it has long been and will always
be alligator, gator for short, ice.

  As the many good comments suggest, there may
well be more than one source of the problem. I
would echo the observation that transfer of the
cryoholder is likely the most common one. We see
it frequently on the CM120 but not usually on the
Titan. We see it with both manual and Vitrobot
freezing irrespective of ethane tank age or
fullness. Some samples seem to be more
susceptable than others, our lipid monolayer
samples are very prone to the "dried mud" appearance.

Dianne Taylor
At 08:53 AM 11/22/2013, Bob Grassucci wrote:

>I am getting a chuckle out of the image of a
>Leopard shaving ;)  That being said that is why
>turtle ice may be more accurate.
>Bob
>On 11/21/2013 10:45 PM, Joachim Frank wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>just a note on the terminology:
>>You mean leopard fur, maybe?
>>Because the animal, shaved down to the skin, looks quite different for sure.
>>
>>--Joachim.
>>
>>Quoting Stefan Bohn <Stefan.Bohn at ucsf.edu>:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>sometimes this ice was appearing, when the ethane bottle was nearly empty.
>>>Sometimes, ethane bottle was full and it still appeared (open plunger, F20,
>>>identical(!) sample - 20mM Hepes, 20mM NaCl, 10mM MgCl2, ~15% glycerol) -
>>>in those instances I attributed it to not having filled the nitrogen high
>>>enough in the dewar, maybe not cooling the ethane long enough. Sometimes
>>>only part of the grid showed this ice, other parts were normal - particles
>>>were distributed evenly on those grids.
>>>
>>>But, in general, it was not reproducible. I couldn't correlate it to the
>>>phase of the moon, as was suggested to me several times...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Most importantly, we referred to it as "turtle-ice" (from Schildkroete =
>>>plate toad).
>>>
>>>Hope that helps,
>>>
>>>Stefan.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Jacob Brink <jbrink at jeol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Paul and Frank,
>>>>
>>>>We've also seen this type of ice in Flu particle preps at NIBSC during the
>>>>cryo-EM course, but we'd see it in the middle of the ice, away from
>>>>particles (see below). The ethane tank had not been moved. So, we never
>>>>really could attribute it to anything unless the ice would get really thin?
>>>>Open air plunger (!) and imaged in a 2100-LaB6 TT.
>>>>
>>>>Jaap
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Nov 21, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Paul Chipman <pchipman at ufl.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Hi Frank,
>>>>
>>>>At Purdue we called this "alligator ice" and would see it from time to
>>>>time, occasionally when an ethane tank was nearing empty.  As such we
>>>>attributed to impurities that impeded freezing.  It could also be just
>>>>something in the buffer or sample that alters the freezing. The recent
>>>>image below displays this type of ice but only near the viral particles.
>>>>Most of the ice was great except in areas of high particle concentration.
>>>>When I told the student the name we gave this type of ice, I got a laugh.
>>>>
>>>>Go Gators! (Florida)
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:54 AM, <frankpolzer at physik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>During the last weeks, I frequently observe what I believe is so-called
>>>>>leopard skin ice in my vitrified samples (plunge frozen in ethane using
>>>>>Mark IV Vitrobot).
>>>>>
>>>>>What again is the reason for this type of ice and how can this be avoided?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for your help in advance,
>>>>>
>>>>>Frank
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Dr. Frank Polzer
>>>>>
>>>>>TEM Group
>>>>>Insitute of Physics
>>>>>Humboldt Universität zu Berlin
>>>>>Newtonstraße 15
>>>>>12489 - Berlin
>>>>>Tel.: +49 30 2093-4995 (office)
>>>>>Tel.: +49 30 2093-7829 (TEM)
>>>>>Fax: +49 30 2093-7886
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>3dem mailing list
>>>>>3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
>>>>>https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem<http://cp.mcafee.com/d/2DRPoArhpuvKUU-ejdTdFET73AhOtXCQQrzxO8VcsedFEIEIffzDS3qqdTAnQTQSjoygza1k52fRfVsS8_k_BPoVyUXTAT-LObbVEVKNRXBQn76ejouppjVqWtAklrTjVkffGhBrwqrhdECXYyMCY-ehojd79KVIDeqR4IMjW5BphVKR4eZ1L1dnoovaAVgtHza7GCSkflbAaJMJZ0l2OIEYTqy7uwSruud79EVsjdwLQzh0qmSkfldbFEwd4h_RmSa1EwElB0Qh6y2lLdTdCt0VWq79>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Paul Chipman
>>>>Assistant Director of Research
>>>>Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
>>>>University of Florida
>>>>352-294-1790
>>>>
>>>>  <alligator_ice.tif>_______________________________________________
>>>>3dem mailing list
>>>>3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Dr. Stefan Bohn
>>>Department of Cellular and Molecular Pharmacology
>>>University of California
>>>1700 4th Street, Box 2530
>>>San Francisco, CA. 94158
>>>
>>>Phone: +1 (415) 476 - 2980
>>>Fax: +1 (415) 514 - 9736
>>
>>
>
>
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Dianne W. Taylor
Associate in Research
Institute of Molecular Biophysics
Florida State University
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4380
Phone: (850) 644-4104
E-mail:  dianne at bio.fsu.edu

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