[3dem] Quality of Ethane
Hands-Portman, Ian
I.J.Portman at warwick.ac.uk
Mon Feb 4 00:43:41 PST 2013
We used high purity ethane for years, it does freeze quite quickly but is easy enough to thaw with a touch from a screwdriver blade or a quick blast of fresh ethane. We never had contamination issues with it until the tank was almost empty but it was expensive to buy.
When I heard about ethane/propane mixed I switched over to that -for ease of use I buy it ready mixed - I'm not allowed to store then tanks in the lab so only want to have to move one around. It's considerably cheaper than plain ethane, it gels slightly but never sets - I wouldn't go back to using ethane.
Ian Hands-Portman
Imaging Suite Manager
School of Life Sciences
University of Warwick
Gibbet Hill Road
Coventry
CV47AL
Tel 02476 522882
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Today's Topics:
1. Quality of ethane for freezing (Bullitt Esther)
2. Quality of ethane (Reinhard Rachel)
3. Quality of ethane for freezing (Ariane Briegel)
4. Re: Quality of ethane for freezing (Bob Grassucci)
5. Re: Quality of ethane for freezing (Cindi Schwartz)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:22:13 -0500
From: Bullitt Esther <bullitt at bu.edu>
Subject: [3dem] Quality of ethane for freezing
To: 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
Message-ID: <97FB6FD9-0F0F-4F01-97F4-DE7DE6183274 at physbio.bumc.bu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi,
We have always bought technical grade ethane rather than the high purity. By the bottom of the tank, the grids have contamination, and so we switch it out.
This last time, the tank cost half the price, and has been showing contamination pretty soon after we started using it. Perhaps it is now a lower grade.
Do people recommend buying the high purity ethane? My understanding is that it then freezes very rapidly, so one must contend with thawing it often.
thanks,
Esther
---
Esther Bullitt, Ph.D.
Dept. of Physiology & Biophysics
Boston University School of Medicine
700 Albany Street, Room W302
Boston, MA 02118-2526
Email: bullitt at bu.edu
Telephone: 617-638-5037
Facsimile: 617-638-4041
http://www.bumc.bu.edu/phys-biophys/faculty/bullitt
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 17:36:59 +0100
From: "Reinhard Rachel" <Reinhard.Rachel at biologie.uni-regensburg.de>
Subject: [3dem] Quality of ethane
To: <3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <510BFD3B02000054000375FA at gwsmtp1.uni-regensburg.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Esther,
> We have always bought technical grade ethane rather than the high purity.
Unfortunately, we do not have this kind of labeling. What we have is "Ethan 2.5" which is >= 99.5% ethane; what is also available: "Ethan 3.5", >= 99.95% ethane, but we do not buy this.
> By the bottom of the tank, the grids have contamination, and so we switch it out.
we have not observed it - yet. Maybe we stopped using it before it was really empty?
> This last time, the tank cost half the price, and has been showing
> contamination pretty soon after we started using it. Perhaps it is
> now a lower grade.
Does this batch of ethane give you the "%"?
and, how does the sum that you pay less ("half the price"), compare to the cost of preparing your valuable samples, and to the cost of running the cryoTEM? Is it worth?
> Do people recommend buying the high purity ethane? My understanding
> is that it then freezes very rapidly, so one must contend with thawing it often.
we are happy with the ethane 99.5% - we could buy a 99.95% ethane, but with our experience, we do not see a need to do so.
HTH, and kind regards,
Reinhard
--
Prof. Dr. Reinhard Rachel
University of Regensburg
Centre for EM / Anatomy
Faculty of Biology & Preclin. Med.
Universitaetsstrasse 31
D-93053 Regensburg - Germany
tel +49 941 943 2837, 1720
fax +49 941 943 2868
mail reinhard.rachel at biologie.uni-regensburg.de
office: VKL 3.1.29
next microscopy conferences:
http://www.mc2013.de/
MC2013 in Regensburg, Germany
http://www.imc2014.com/
18th IMC 2014 in Prague, Czech Rep.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 08:55:12 -0800
From: Ariane Briegel <briegel at caltech.edu>
Subject: [3dem] Quality of ethane for freezing
To: 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
Message-ID: <6106F71B-1252-4C1D-A0F7-CE967FAC06D5 at caltech.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Dear Esther,
we had similar issues a few years back. If I remember correctly,the "pure CP Ethane" label of the ethane changed to 99% purity, whereas older "pure CP Ethane" was specified 99.5%.
After we ordered a higher grade ethane, there contamination issues disappeared.
We also use an ethane/propane mix in the lab- this mixture doesn't freeze at all and we have great success using it:
An improved cryogen for plunge freezing. Microscopy and Microanalysis : the Official Journal of Microscopy Society of America, Microbeam Analysis Society, Microscopical Society of Canada, 14(5), 375?379.
Good luck!
????????????????????????????
Ariane Briegel, Ph.D.
California Institute of Technology
Broad Center, MC 114-96
1200 E. California Blvd.
Pasadena, CA 91125
Tel: 626-395-8848
Fax: 626-395-5730
????????????????????????????
On Feb 1, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Bullitt Esther wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have always bought technical grade ethane rather than the high purity. By the bottom of the tank, the grids have contamination, and so we switch it out.
>
> This last time, the tank cost half the price, and has been showing contamination pretty soon after we started using it. Perhaps it is now a lower grade.
>
> Do people recommend buying the high purity ethane? My understanding is that it then freezes very rapidly, so one must contend with thawing it often.
>
> thanks,
> Esther
>
> ---
> Esther Bullitt, Ph.D.
> Dept. of Physiology & Biophysics
> Boston University School of Medicine
> 700 Albany Street, Room W302
> Boston, MA 02118-2526
>
> Email: bullitt at bu.edu
> Telephone: 617-638-5037
> Facsimile: 617-638-4041
> http://www.bumc.bu.edu/phys-biophys/faculty/bullitt
>
> _______________________________________________
> 3dem mailing list
> 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:13:11 -0500
From: Bob Grassucci <rg2502 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [3dem] Quality of ethane for freezing
To: 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
Message-ID: <510BF7A7.4050207 at columbia.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
Just my 2 cents. We generally use research grade which I believe is 99.95% to avoid the contaminants from the bottom. This grade takes longer to get and is more expensive. You start seeing these contaminants with lower grades if your tank is close to empty or if you have moved the tank very recently (1-2 hours?). Moving the tank stirs up what is on the bottom. In order to avoid contamination we order the higher grade so we can get the full use of the tank and move it around at will. Just personal preference. My guess as to the difference in grades is only if they clean out the old tank before filling back up for the higher grade;) You could get lucky with a lower grade?
Bob
On 2/1/2013 11:55 AM, Ariane Briegel wrote:
> Dear Esther,
> we had similar issues a few years back. If I remember correctly,the
> "pure CP Ethane" label of the ethane changed to 99% purity, whereas
> older "pure CP Ethane" was specified 99.5%.
> After we ordered a higher grade ethane, there contamination issues
> disappeared.
>
> We also use an ethane/propane mix in the lab- this mixture doesn't
> freeze at all and we have great success using it:
> An improved cryogen for plunge freezing. Microscopy and Microanalysis
> : the Official Journal of Microscopy Society of America, Microbeam
> Analysis Society, Microscopical Society of Canada, 14(5), 375--379.
> Good luck!
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Ariane Briegel, Ph.D.
> California Institute of Technology
> Broad Center, MC 114-96
> 1200 E. California Blvd.
> Pasadena, CA 91125
>
> Tel: 626-395-8848
> Fax: 626-395-5730
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Bullitt Esther wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have always bought technical grade ethane rather than the high
>> purity. By the bottom of the tank, the grids have contamination, and
>> so we switch it out.
>>
>> This last time, the tank cost half the price, and has been showing
>> contamination pretty soon after we started using it. Perhaps it is
>> now a lower grade.
>>
>> Do people recommend buying the high purity ethane? My understanding
>> is that it then freezes very rapidly, so one must contend with
>> thawing it often.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Esther
>>
>> ---
>> Esther Bullitt, Ph.D.
>> Dept. of Physiology & Biophysics
>> Boston University School of Medicine
>> 700 Albany Street, Room W302
>> Boston, MA 02118-2526
>>
>> Email: bullitt at bu.edu <mailto:bullitt at bu.edu>
>> Telephone: 617-638-5037
>> Facsimile: 617-638-4041
>> http://www.bumc.bu.edu/phys-biophys/faculty/bullitt
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 3dem mailing list
>> 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu <mailto:3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu>
>> https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 3dem mailing list
> 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:28:12 -0700
From: Cindi Schwartz <cindi.schwartz at Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: [3dem] Quality of ethane for freezing
To: 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
Message-ID: <7717AFF2-2D3D-4152-BCFC-38A94C3039CF at bio3d.colorado.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
To Ariane's point, we also use the ethane/propane mix with great success, but I confess we just use the propane you can buy at the hardware store. I'm feeling like our grids look fine. We use the highest purity ethane we can find, though.
Cindi
On Feb 1, 2013, at 9:55 AM, Ariane Briegel wrote:
> Dear Esther,
> we had similar issues a few years back. If I remember correctly,the "pure CP Ethane" label of the ethane changed to 99% purity, whereas older "pure CP Ethane" was specified 99.5%.
> After we ordered a higher grade ethane, there contamination issues disappeared.
>
> We also use an ethane/propane mix in the lab- this mixture doesn't freeze at all and we have great success using it:
> An improved cryogen for plunge freezing. Microscopy and Microanalysis : the Official Journal of Microscopy Society of America, Microbeam Analysis Society, Microscopical Society of Canada, 14(5), 375?379.
> Good luck!
>
>
> ????????????????????????????
> Ariane Briegel, Ph.D.
> California Institute of Technology
> Broad Center, MC 114-96
> 1200 E. California Blvd.
> Pasadena, CA 91125
>
> Tel: 626-395-8848
> Fax: 626-395-5730
> ????????????????????????????
>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Bullitt Esther wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have always bought technical grade ethane rather than the high purity. By the bottom of the tank, the grids have contamination, and so we switch it out.
>>
>> This last time, the tank cost half the price, and has been showing contamination pretty soon after we started using it. Perhaps it is now a lower grade.
>>
>> Do people recommend buying the high purity ethane? My understanding is that it then freezes very rapidly, so one must contend with thawing it often.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Esther
>>
>> ---
>> Esther Bullitt, Ph.D.
>> Dept. of Physiology & Biophysics
>> Boston University School of Medicine
>> 700 Albany Street, Room W302
>> Boston, MA 02118-2526
>>
>> Email: bullitt at bu.edu
>> Telephone: 617-638-5037
>> Facsimile: 617-638-4041
>> http://www.bumc.bu.edu/phys-biophys/faculty/bullitt
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 3dem mailing list
>> 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
>> https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> 3dem mailing list
> 3dem at ncmir.ucsd.edu
> https://mail.ncmir.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/3dem
****************************
Cindi L. Schwartz
University of Colorado
Dept. MCDB
347 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309
O: 303-492-7980
F: 303-735-0770
http://bio3d.colorado.edu
****************************
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